This post contains the substantive part of a debate held on Reverse Engineering in January of 2012, just before we openned the Diner for Bizness. The hypothesis being discussed is whether its possible that the decimation of the Native Population of the Americas through disease vectors was undertaken ON PURPOSE by the Illuminati.
I personally have further thoughts on this subject not included in these posts which have hit me since the original debate. I present the original debate here unedited for new readers to join in and further analyze this very provacative question.
The problem I think with this was the Disease vectors. Even the failing exploratory ships that never returned probably made it to the coast, offloaded the crew who even after getting killed off delivered Smallpox to the area. Remember, though Columbus made the Islands in the Carribean in 1492, those first colonies didn’t get established in NA until the 1600s, a full century later. Did the Europeans really wait a full century to send more ships out this way? I doubt it. > > Basically it took abut 100 years for the Smallpox and other diseases to run unchecked through the native population, “softening” the defenses and leaving large swaths of the coastline to be defended by only a few Natives. It was essentially the first full scale Biological War of Genocide. –RE
Here is a nasty one to ponder on with respect to early colonialization.
What if during the interevening CENTURY of time between when Columbus “discovered” Amerika and the Jamestown Colny was founded in the 1600s British, Dutch, Spanish and Portuguese PURPOSELY filled up ships with diseased people and sent then on a One Way trip to the New World, SPECIFICALLY with the purpose of infecting the Native Population with the diseases they had incubated over the years in Europe?
We KNOW that after arrival, the Europeans PURPOSEFULLY traded Smallpox Infected Blankets with the Natives, so why would they not have done the same thing from the very moment thye discovered the New World?
You got a bunch of Sick People, you put them on a ship out of your town and they have to head for the New World. Win-Win. You get the sick folks OUT of your community, and you infect and kill a vast number of people currently living on good land you can take over after they are all wiped out. You don’t expect them EVER to come back, and you don’t even record these voyages. They are just Biological Suicide Bombers!
I have now convinced myself in this argument that the Smallpox decimation of Native Americans in the period from 1500-1600 was undertaken DELIBERATELY by the Illuminati to empty the continent as much as possible of people. In 100 years, they took down the population this way from estimates of around 100M to just 2-3M people, without sacrificing ANYTHING other than some people who were gonna die anyhow! They didn’t try colonizing the continent until the Smallpox had done most of the dirty work already! Why ELSE wait 100 years here?
This was the first Biological War, and it was purposeful.
Re: The First Biological War
There is a wonderful little book called “1491” by Charles Mann that addresses many of the myths we hold about the way the Americas were prior to the arrival of Columbus. It is an entertaining read, and I recommend it.
We are taught in school that the ancestors of the people who inhabited the Western Hemisphere at the time of Columbus’s landing crossed the Bering Strait twelve thousand years ago in nomadic bands, and lived so lightly on the land that the Americas was, for all practical purposes, still a vast wilderness. Mann puts the lie to these foundational myths. He reveals how a new generation of researchers with novel scientific techniques came to startling new conclusions. Among them:
–In 1491 there were probably more people living in the Americas than in Europe. Certain cities–such as Tenochtitlán, the Aztec capital–were far greater in population than any contemporary European city. Furthermore, Tenochtitlán, unlike any capital in Europe at that time, had running water, beautiful botanical gardens, and immaculately clean streets. –The earliest cities in the Western Hemisphere were thriving before the Egyptians built the great pyramids. –Pre-Columbian Indians in Mexico developed corn by a breeding process so sophisticated that the journal Science called it “man’s first, and perhaps the greatest, feat of genetic engineering.” –Amazonian Indians learned how to farm the rain forest without destroying it–a process scientists are studying today in the hope of regaining this lost knowledge. (Google “terra preta” ) –Native Americans transformed their land so completely that Europeans arrived in a hemisphere already massively “landscaped” by human beings.
Mann talks about the disease vector as ell, speculating that as many as 95 per cent of the native population, with no resistance to smallpox, may have been eliminated. most of these people would have never laid eyes on a European. Intriguing.
As to whether the conquistadores were smart enough to wage biowarfare… I doubt it. I think they just got lucky in that regard. What is beyond doubt is that by the 19th century their Yankee brethren had figured that out… the first generation of Orkin Men?
Re: [reverseengineering] Re: The First Biological War
I don’t buy the biowarfare thesis for the extermination of the natives. It’s plausible, I suppose, but consider the knowledge of infectious diseases and “germs” at that point in history. It was non-existent. Drinking water with a meal would give you flu. It was still hocus-pocus and superstition.
The Native Americans might as well have been living on another planet in 1500. They never cohabited with domesticated livestock like the Euros and never had to develop immunity to crowd diseases like smallpox, measles, etc. that jumped the species boundaries in the European cities.
The Natives were simply unequipped biologically to handle the germs. A new virus that has a zero immunity amongst a population will spread like wild under most circumstances. Plenty of Europeans died of smallpox before the entire population achieved some level of biological resilience to the disease. The Natives never had the opportunity for a demographic recovery of smallpox survivors.
Re: The First Biological War
Extensively covered by Jared Diamond in his book, “Guns, Germs, and Steel,” which has also been turned into a multi-part PBS documentary, where they cover the use of smallpox as a biological weapon of mass destruction by the 16th century Europeans here: http://www.pbs.org/gunsgermssteel/variables/smallpox.html
I have a hard time believing that first few sets of early European explorers and their political/private business masters intentionally intended to infect Native American populations simply because they didn’t know about disease vectors or even the germ theory of disease.
I don’t think it really mattered, because ignorant or not, they still managed to wipe out huge swaths of population.
Re: The First Biological War
This is one of those myths about ignorance like everyone thought the world was flat back then. Although these folks did not have microscopes and knew nothing of germs, they were quite aware sick people communicate disease. This is why going back to Biblical timer Lepers were isolated. During the Middle Ages, a common warfare techinque was to hurl Plague Infected corpses over the Castle Wall to get everyone inside the place infected with Plague.
You don’t think they wouldn’t try the same gimmick on the NA Continent? They ust had no clue how successful it would actually be, since the Natives here had no resistance to these diseases, nto having lived in the same environment in which they were incubated.
To lapse serious for a moment, there was a book I read sometime ago whose name I cannot recall that discusses a Chinese “admiral of the high seas,” Cheng Ho, having lead an expedition supposedly to explore and colonize the entire world on behalf of the chinese emperor. Decades before Christopher Columbus sailed in search of a water route to Asia, according to this bookthe Chinese were exploring the Indian Ocean and Western Pacific with seven voyages of the “Treasure Fleet” that solidified Chinese control over much of Asia in the 15th century… This book too also offers an alternative view of history.
I tend to believe that the versions of history that we have been presented are incomplete, where they have not been bowdlerized or sanitized. For example, the book on Chinese exploration of identifies a number of genetic markers, both human animal and plants that are present through the Americans that are otherwise unable to be explained if not through colonization by the Chinese. Interesting stuff, that you are not surprised to know receives scant hearing among proessional mainstream explorers. I don’t know why mainstream historians should be so resistant to the idea of several immigration vectors to the Americas, as opposed to the Overland Bering Strait route, but then that’s not my field.
To address your other point, it is quite clear that our ethical or moral development has in no way kept pace with our scientific and technological development. This is our great failing as a species, and may well lead to our ultimate undoing, as has been plentifully discussed here.
Indeed Ross, that is the thesis that Charles Mann explains in 1491. That the natives had resistance to fungus-based infections, whereas the Europeans had developed resistance to bacterial infections. He explains all this in great depth and detail, and with a compelling narrative that escapes me here. But it’s certainly worth reading and it’s interesting that he reaches an identical conclusion based on the evidence. Not sure if I made this point before, but Mann suggested as many as 19/20 Native Americans may have perished by the time the European settlers set foot in North America, most of them by disease, and most having never laid eyes on a European.
Re: The First Biological War
All of what you say is true enough, but I disagree about intent. Most of the first wave of Europeans were explorers, who shared the interest in gold of the bloodthirsty and notorious Spanish, but were more interested in taking stock of what was here and reporting back. I think the Europeans got “lucky” to have encountered a mostly empty continent when the waves of colonizers got here. The first French explorers who came up the Mississippi discovered a thriving city at cahokia. Some years later, when people retraced their steps, they discovered empty mounds.
My point is thus: that typically “first contact” does not result in a mission of extermination.
We leave that sort of thing to venture capitalists.
Yes, I’ve heard this Chinese exploration thesis before. Supposedly after the expeditions reported back on their findings the Empire found it suitable to shut the Empire until the Opium Wars forced them to open up.
What did the Japanese and Chinese find that convinced them they were better off shutting out the rest of the world?
I agree that history provides a social distortion and is misleading. “Recorded history” may be no more historically accurate than the Bible. Recent history provides visual evidence but even recent history is subject to interpretation and manipulation.
The implication that Europeans wiped out a culture that had deeply Asiatic roots, was populous and technologically advanced AND did it out of ignorance is … uncomfortable for the social narrative of American exceptionalism.
Re: The First Biological War
To be honest, I think the Intentional Hypothesis WRT Biological Warfare in this case is fairly low probability. However, given the propensity here for Conspiracy Theories WRT the Elders of Zion, I figured I should pitch it out there as a possibility. If you are willing to accept the idea that these folks might unleash a variant of H1N1 on the current population to bring it down, its not a huge leap to consider that they might have done it before upon the discovery of the New World.
All they really needed to know was that disease could spread rapidly through contact with infected people, which they certainly knew after centuries/millenia of Plagues of various sorts. What better way to soften up the continent for subsequent Invasion?
The more likely probability is just one or two Spanish ships early on brought Smallpox first to South America, then it just rapidly spread up from there through a population with no previous exposure. The Mound Builders had many cultural similarities with the Central American tribes, and there was likely trade between them.
So, if this is true, then yes its mainly a matter of “luck” rather than intent that the native population had been so decimated by the time major colonization got underway. I still have some issues with the “missing Century” there though between Discovery and Colonization attempts. That was an awfully long time to wait to gain a foothold on the NA continent. Perhaps they were trying through the period, but there were just too many Natives around early on to safely set up a colony. They weren’t successful until the Smalpox had run its course all the way up the East Coast of NA.